Exporting the best quality for web DL

[gwyn]

Hey everyone -- I've made a vid for Escapade using HD source for the first time. I finally got my files to work for the size needed for the show, but now I'm trying to get a decent quality file that's not too huge for posting to the web -- both for download at my site, and for uploading to streaming. Nothing I make seems to come out well.

I exported using the H.264 codec (or whatever the number is, I don't have it open right now), and got a fairly shiny file at the Avengers aspect ratio of 965x542. But if I try to make it into any kind of .avi, it becomes massively pixelated and other files types seem really blurry -- not what I want after using all that HD source.

What are people using these days for DL and streaming? I think my methods are woefully out of date. And how did you get there?

For what it's worth, I'm on a Mac using an older version of FCP (6), and use MPEG Streamclip to make a lot of my web files.

Comments

[laurashapiro]

I had been using DivX, but that's been giving me audio artifacts at the end of the file for some reason.

My new plan, which I learned from thingswithwings, is to make mp4s instead. These use the H.264 codec, which you already know is shiny. I recently learned that the way to keep them from being pixellated is to radically increase the bit rate. I'm working with a bit rate of 9000 for my most recent exports, and they look great.

[gwyn]

Oh wow, bit rate never even crossed my mind. I'll give that a try and see what happens. And try the mp4s.

[laurashapiro]

Let me know if the increased bit rate makes better avis! If it does, I will abandon mp4, since avi is more popular with Windows users.

[gwyn]

So far I'm not having any luck with anything -- I either can't change the file size so it's squeezed into a postage stamp, or I have no output choices. I've looked at both MPEG Streamclip and Quicktime. (and I confess, I can't figure out where the bit rate is -- nothing says bit rate!)

I am just completely flummoxed by this. I guess I'll keep plugging away and maybe go back to what I used to do and just suck it up that it's going to look terrible... I dunno.

[laurashapiro]

I have the same version of FCP as you have, and I just export the .mp4 directly from it.

Export --> Using Quicktime Conversion --> MP4

You have to fiddle with the very first dropdown in the resulting dialog box or it won't let you pick the right size.

I can screensnap it for you if you need me to.

[isagel]

I find that when the bitrate is high enough for the vid to be shiny, the H.264 file is actually at least as large as equal quality DivX files I make of the same vid. I suspect this means I'm doing something wrong.

[laurashapiro]

Not at all. H.264 and DivX are very closely related -- it's not surprising you'd have similar results.

[rhivolution]

Are you exporting directly to AVI from FCP? The native AVI compression in the FC products up until (apparently, I've not tried it) FCPX is abysmal. Internet says the codec that's part of FCP/Compressor is the problem? I'm mostly just going off personal experience and a lot of waiting for renders of my MA dissertation that turned out to be garbage.

Anyway, I always end up exporting to MOV and converting using a third party converter. VisualHub's always been good, if you can find an old copy floating around.

[gwyn]

No, I've traditionally made either a full quality AVI and then an MOV through MPEG Streamclip, because that's always deinterlaced things one final time and smoothed out the credits text. But this time I went straight from FCP to .mov, and then tried to use MPEG Streamclip to create a web file. Nothing comes out well. What do you choose as your final output in VisualHub? I don't know anything about the program but I'm always willing to try something new.

[rhivolution]

Hmm, that's weird that it did that from an MOV to MPEG Streamclip--maybe check your MOV settings before export? I usually set mine to be higher resolution than the native and haven't had much trouble with credits text.

VisualHub...I usually just ramp up the AVI quality a little bit and roll from there. It doesn't have a preview function, which is kind of suck; not sure what codec it uses but I have rarely had pain with it. I've also used it to convert AVI to DV for easy FCP use, which has been handy in the past...though DV is so massive a file that my old MacBook balks a little.

[gwyn]

I'll poke around and see if I can change anything...I confess, I probably should have noted that I am STUPID when it comes to this stuff. I find something that someone tells me to do, and then I do that forever more because I can't figure out what people are talking about. ;-) I have to literally have people hold my hand and walk me through it.

[rhivolution]

If you need guidance just holler! I'm not that great at tutorials, but I will give it a stab.

[caramarie]

I've given up on avis since I started vidding in HD. I just couldn't get decent quality without a ridiculous file size. So now I use mp4s with the video in H.264.

I export my vids as lossless avis from my video editing program, and then use Zarx246gui to convert them to mp4s. I find I can just use the default high-quality settings and I'll get something that looks good and isn't too big. (Zarx246gui is Windows-only, but I assume MPEG Streamclip does the same thing?)

If I want to stream the vid myself (rather than upload to Youtube or something), I usually do an SD version of the mp4 and use that. I could probably keep it in HD for somewhat less quality, but I'm too slack to play around with the settings to find out.

Basically, I do whatever the guide on AMV.org tells me to ...

[isagel]

I was trying to do just this yesterday, but I can't make the Zarx gui work right. It makes files, but then I can't open them with any program. :(

[caramarie]

Weird, I've never had any problems :-/ What kind of file is it making, is it the mp4 that isn't working or is it an avs? I always end up with a bunch of leftover avs files.

[gwyn]

I'm honestly not sure -- I think I understand some of this (I should maybe have noted that I am beyond stupid at this sort of thing). What settings do you use in Zarx, so maybe I can take a look at MPEG Streamclip and see if I can find something similar.

Thanks for your reply! I wish I wasn't so stupid so I didn't have to ask so many questions.

[caramarie]

Ha, if I'm honest, the reason I like Zarx is that I just set it to 'highest quality' and 'film' and it thinks about all the rest for me. I'll have a look when I get home and see if I can figure out what that actually means in terms of settings.

(And now I'm wondering if I was just really shitty at compressing avis all this time, and that's why I've seen such a huge difference! :))

[caramarie]

Just had a look at the settings you're offered in Zarx don't seem to match the ones in Streamclip. The thing that makes the biggest different in Zarx is that you can tell it to encode really slowly, and you'll get a better result. But I can't see that option in Streamclip, so that's not very helpful, sorry!

[violace]

I'm on a Windows machine and have no experience with FCP, so I can't help you on any specifics there, but I've managed to get shiny xvid avis for DL versions. I export uncompressed AVI out of Vegas and make web-ready encodes with StaxRip, but it shouldn't matter what program you use, really. As long as it allows you to specify your desired bitrate, it should be fine. From my experience, for a 720p version you shouldn't go any lower than 4000 kbps.

I feel like xvid/divx is still pretty standard for DL versions in the vidding community since older machines can have issues with H.264 playback, but the latter is definitely the more modern thing to use.

For streaming versions I'll just suggest looking for the recommended specifications for uploads on whatever streaming site you want to use - YouTube's are here, for example, and here on Vimeo. They're all pretty similar. :)